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Granada MK II - 4.1litre 24v BOB

Started by Tobbelainnen, July 04, 2007, 22:56:27

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Tobbelainnen

Finally I've got a real car, a bit heavier then a sierra, but how cool isn't? A granada injection with the recaro interior! A bit rusty, but nothing that a bit of welding and some paint can't fix. Still lots of work to be done before any start up.......  Will update later with more pictures and info......


Quality Specialist - Technical Analysis and Product Improvements

king2

i am looking forward to see this Car running 4.1 Litre engine !

     

Tobbelainnen

Spent last night in the garage, but now the engine is in, but I do have a slight interference issue so it got to come out again  But it looks like there are lots of space for the headers  




Quality Specialist - Technical Analysis and Product Improvements

Dave

     

Looking good Tobbe

The sump giving you problems is it  

Well the block was fitted to a truck
Dave

Tobbelainnen

It was pretty close that it would fit right away BUT it didn't  It's not much it interferes so a bit of cutting and welding in the beam should fix the problem.
Quality Specialist - Technical Analysis and Product Improvements

Chuck W

Quote from: Tobbelainnen
Finally I've got a real car, a bit heavier then a sierra, but how cool isn't? A granada injection with the recaro interior! A bit rusty, but nothing that a bit of welding and some paint can't fix. Still lots of work to be done before any start up.......  Will update later with more pictures and info......



I'd like to see more pics of this......

Tobbelainnen

#6
Chuck, I got to clean the car on the inside before I get any pictures of it  

Got the front beam fixed, so now the engine is in for real. Unfortunaly the engine bay is a bit dirty and I don't have any water at my workshop.... So I guess the washing have to wait until I can drive the car. You will notice this on the pictures  

Did mess up on the oil return on the lhs side I had made in the sump, the starter was supposed to be there   So I had to plug it up and get the oil from the lhs head to the rhs oil return in the sump via a hose, hope it won't cause any trouble...  Will get some fittings from work later on and bend a pipe to connect it, wouldn't be so fun if the hose fails.... Will fix a new oil return on the lhs in the sump next time the engine comes out.....

Things left to do is, wire up the MS&EDIS, connect the cooling system, make an exhaust system and after that I think I am ready to start her up....  And give her a good wash and hide the rust a bit  

[attachment=1] [attachment=2] [attachment=3]

Quality Specialist - Technical Analysis and Product Improvements

Dave


Won't be long now  

Oil return should be O.K for a bit just don't rev it to much as if it is restrictive the heads will have more oil in them than the sump.
Dave

Tobbelainnen

Was supposed to start the beast last night. BUT my laptop couldn't comunicate with the MS&EDIS.... I've been told that it is due to that it is a Fujitsu Siemens that it doesn't work with the USB-Serial adapter and MS&EDIS.  Strange but it works with the OBD II interface in both Scorpio and Volvo... If any one got a tip on how to solve the problems without replacing the laptop, please tell me....

Need to sort this and have a test run
Quality Specialist - Technical Analysis and Product Improvements

Tobbelainnen

Got it started now. It seems to work OK so far, but it really need a mapping session   And I got an exhaust leak on NO 6 flange, got to fix this.... I really hate the headers, it takes several hours to get them in place and tighten them up, and you cannot manage to do it by yourself.....

It feels really good to have finished the first stage in the project.... The engine sounds a lot different from the 24v in my scorp, it's fecking much nicer sound in the 4.1

I'll try to get some movie up soon....

Quality Specialist - Technical Analysis and Product Improvements

jp o'hara

Quote from: Tobbelainnen
Was supposed to start the beast last night. BUT my laptop couldn't comunicate with the MS&EDIS.... I've been told that it is due to that it is a Fujitsu Siemens that it doesn't work with the USB-Serial adapter and MS&EDIS.  Strange but it works with the OBD II interface in both Scorpio and Volvo... If any one got a tip on how to solve the problems without replacing the laptop, please tell me....

Need to sort this and have a test run
Do you still have a db9 port on your MS. sounds like your using a usb connection. People are having problems with the communication from MS to laptop via the usb cable. This is due to differences in protocol communication from one manufacture to another.  If you look on the MS website you cand find different threads on adapters for usb-to-serial port. Or you can go really trick for about $150.00 and get a blue tooth conection that will let you have usb on computer and db9 on MS or usb to usb and allow you to change connection protocol. All without a physical connection so you can tune on the fly and at the dyno without having to worry about a cable.

Tobbelainnen

Quality Specialist - Technical Analysis and Product Improvements

binksy


jp o'hara

Toby,
 Good progress with the engine. Now you just have to finish making the fuel tables, timing tables, and the warm up enrichment tables. The easy stuff. Yea right    Did you ever get your computer and the MS to communicate.


Tobbelainnen

Quote from: jp o'hara
Toby,
 Good progress with the engine. Now you just have to finish making the fuel tables, timing tables, and the warm up enrichment tables. The easy stuff. Yea right    Did you ever get your computer and the MS to communicate.

I did get it to work, with both my usb adapters, don't know why but suddenly it all started to work.... And  I only changed settings for one of them.... But now both of them works  

//Tobbe
Quality Specialist - Technical Analysis and Product Improvements

jp o'hara

Quote from: Tobbelainnen
I did get it to work, with both my usb adapters, don't know why but suddenly it all started to work.... And  I only changed settings for one of them.... But now both of them works  

//Tobbe

     Good stuff man, nice to hear that it's the two are talking to each other. What MS are you running, I or II?
I know that your running edis, but have you configured it for Multiple Spark Discharge?   If you lengthen the (saw) by 2048us over the entire spark curve then you will achieve 3 sparks per cylinder event.   Also curious if you are running wideban o2 sensors. My 4.0l is configured this way and I have to say that you do notice a power gain.

Tobbelainnen

I run a MS I v2.2 board with surface mounted components, really small one... I don't use multiple spark. And I only got a NB hego at the moment.....
Quality Specialist - Technical Analysis and Product Improvements

Tobbelainnen

Been out on a little tuning trip, bloody strong it is......  And I also noticed that the stock injectors doesn't get you so far, and also a stock clutch is no good at all..... Luckily I got 550cc injectors to put in.... Bugger that the BOB uses sidefed... Hard to comeby, the 550cc is way too big but what can you do? I got a set of 359cc top fed the would suit the engine better but there is no way to fit em..

The engine will come out and also uppgraded next month since the car will be scrapped, so it will not be running again before next summer. Got another mkII that is rust free and it also got a valid MOT for TWO years   You guys don't know how it is to have the swedish MOT rules, lucky you.......
Quality Specialist - Technical Analysis and Product Improvements

Dave


I myself use 550cc Skyline injectors which is probably what you have got.

The STD skyline ones maybe is what you need but check the flow rate as I can't remember?

Did you increase the fuel pressure for the STD ones?
Dave

Tobbelainnen

Dave, it runs on standard fuel pressure... The idea was just to keep the rpm at WOT below the point of maximum dutycycle. So gear shifting at 4000rpm is safe according to the log files.... But unfortunaly the clutch have given up....

I guess there won't be much more driving this year, so all the fueling issues and clutch problems will be fixed, so I guess it will be up and running at spring again.... But now we know that the engine works   And that was what it all was about in the begining..... So I think the project was a SUCCESS.

This is what it sounds like when driving around with it, you'll notice the clutch slipping, it got really bad very fast, the engine feels really strong and pulls really hard on low revs...

http://hem.bredband.net/cosworth_96/cosworth.wmv]Movie

Not much to look at but it's the only movie the exists when driving it...
Quality Specialist - Technical Analysis and Product Improvements

Dave


Mate I always knew it would work  

Cosworth built some not so different to yours.

Was the clutch good when you put it in?
What clutch is it.

Even if it is a STD 2.9 one the way that slips means your torque must be mega mate  

Excellent work Tobbe
Dave

Tobbelainnen

It's a 2.9 friction plate and a cossie pressure plate, not brand new but they looked to be in good condition, but after it slipped for the first time it went down hill very fast for it, maybe they wasn't in such good condition after all....  I don't know how much torque that is required to get a brand new clutch to slip. Will get another friction plate to test with, sinter 6-paddle or something similar....
Quality Specialist - Technical Analysis and Product Improvements

Dave


Well as long as the clutch was O.K then you must be making 300lbs + for it to destroy itself that fast.

Get something that can take 400lbs matey.

Cool
Dave

Tobbelainnen

I've given this clutch thing some thinking, and the only reason I can come up with, is that the clutch failed due to it was in worse condition than I thought..... I guess this is what happens when you start to save money in the wrong place  

I think I have learned my lesson  .....  Did have a testrun yesterday, you can still make burnouts with it in 1st gear   Got more 60km to my workshop so I just hope it will get there without any towing...  
Quality Specialist - Technical Analysis and Product Improvements

Dave


You should see my new clutch set-up for my 24v TT.

All alloy twin plate for 600lbs torque.

err about 800 pounds worth.

I got given it  
Dave

Dave


Hey Tobbe I just figured out what injectors you need

Nissan (SR20DET - 2 000 cc, 200HP)

Flow rate - 375 cc/min @3bar
Impedance - 10,7 Ohm

They are a exact fit, I have some pics  

Also Cosworth are now making injectors in high flow rates for Zetec turbo engines.

Bobs are same as Zetec side feed fitting wise.

Did you get the small package yet?
Dave

Tobbelainnen

Got the bits, thanks mate. I'll be looking for those injectors then....

//Tobbe
Quality Specialist - Technical Analysis and Product Improvements

Dave


These are the injector's Tobbe fitted to a Ford rail.
Note the connection plug is different so you need the Nissan ones.






But wait mate I am told it's easy to increase side feed flow rates by modding the bottom of the injectors.

I will have a look at this & let you know if the STD one can be increased.
Dave

Tobbelainnen

This is the ones I got, they are supposed to be 550cc from a skyliner but to be honest, when looking at ebay I have never come accross an injector with the colour I got on mine.... I do not know if the will fit into the BOB fuel rail, I was about to test it once, but when trying to remove the BOB injector I got a bit chicken, looked like it didn't want to come out in one peice:)  My brother will turn some new bits for a fuel rail. But it would be even better if the injectors would fit into the BOB fuel rail.


//Tobbe




Quality Specialist - Technical Analysis and Product Improvements

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