We also host the AskNik site,just click on the Sierra

This website will continue to exist, but feel free to click on the Donate button to help with the funding 😇

The sales section is now only accessible for members who have a subscription.
You can subscribe in your account settings.

Please if you find this site helpful & wish to help with it's funding. Thank You.


Project Sierra GT 24V

Started by Remko GT, March 13, 2006, 12:54:16

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Remko GT

Step one:
Friday night I removed all the el. connections, the covers at the gearstick and also removed the 6 bolts from the exhaust manifold in preparation of the removal of the 4pot .
Saturday morning I continued and removed the radiator, exhaust and proshaft.

removal of the 2.0i DOHC:

and ofcourse the gearbox:

Now I can continue removing the rest in the engine bay for a respray

Next couple of weeks I will also pick up the BOB camshafts and the BOB inletmanifold I found and finish the cleaning and painting of the BOA engine after I have put in the new timingchains etc.
It's in a sorry state at the moment:

Actually it's worse at the moment because the fuelrail and injectors are also removed and most of the parts on the rightside of the engine.
But that will all change this month (or the next )




Taps

Be interesting to see your progress m8, keep the pic's coming.

Remko GT

Continued removing parts.


Anyone ever anodized his rockercovers?
I think it would look cool but I haven't a clue what it would cost.

Jeroen

#3
Quote from: Remko GT
I think it would look cool but I haven't a clue what it would cost.

Now anodizing is something completely different  but I think it will cost you loads of money, and you will have to remove the gaskets and way to renew them then. And maybe the type of alu used is not good enough to be anodized.

Actually you can anodize yourself, but I don't know the details; I believe you need a tub of sulfur acid, immerse the workpiece in it and then send a current (ten amps or so) through the acid.

Chris

IBA   15631

Remko GT

Quote from: Jeroen
Now anodizing is something completely different  but I think it will cost you loads of money, and you will have to remove the gaskets and way to renew them then. And maybe the type of alu used is not good enough to be anodized.

Actually you can anodize yourself, but I don't know the details; I believe you need a tub of sulfur acid, immerse the workpiece in it and then send a current (ten amps or so) through the acid.
There are practically no gaskets on the rockercovers so that's not an issue. (I think) In any case, the rub bers on my rockercover are in very good condition so removing them *shouldn't* be a problem.
I'll find out this weekend.

Jeroen

Quote from: Remko GT
There are practically no gaskets on the rockercovers so that's not an issue. (I think) In any case, the rub bers on my rockercover are in very good condition so removing them *shouldn't* be a problem.
I'll find out this weekend.

They are vulcanized on the covers, I think they won't seal properly if you use them again. You know these covers are 300 pounds a set and the gaskets are not available seperately...

Taps

Quote from: Jeroen
You know these covers are 300 pounds a set and the gaskets are not available seperately...

Gaskets sets have been made for these speak to xr4isparescentre

Remko GT

Long time no update but I did make some progress the last couple of months.
The welding on the car is practically finished. Only thing we still need to weld is part on the transmission tunnel and underneath the tailgate.
Engine wise I have almost finished rebuilding it (the heads stayed on because there was no point in taking them off, because the engine is a very healthy one)
We fitted the new timinggear, BOB cams and a new waterpump.
Because of the adapterplate we are still working on, the rest will be done when we have put the engine into the bay. We will make an adapterplate of about 25mm high. This means we will get into trouble with the original fuelrail so a new one will be fabricated soon. Also I found out I need new injectors. The original ones won't supply enough go-juice because of the mods to increase the power. I am going to use VW Corrado G60 injectors. (for all you interested, the injector is almost the same as the 24v ones except the last 2 digits. Instead of 24 it's 01. The should be able to cope with 60hp each. Ofcourse it will be necessary to be set up properly so I think I will order an aftermarket FPR and a underbonnet fuelpressuregauge to keep an eye out.
I am also looking into installing an oiltemperature gauge and an oilpressure gauge.
This leads to a question though; How does the orginal low-oil level indicator senses the oil level is too low? Is it the same with fuel-level? a floating device or something or is it measured because of a drop in oilpressure? I guess it could be seen on the wiring diagram but I am not much of an electician.  
Last weekend I ordered a brand new pressureplate and clutchplate and pressurebearing. Turned out I could order a complete set for a Granada Cosworth! After some checking we (the guy from the tuning shop; www.speedequipment.nl and me) saw a clutchplate available for the 2.9 24v. Just got the call today I can pick it up.

Unfortunately one the camcovergaskets had been damaged so ordered a new set with Barry (Thanks! Arrived in good order) Because the original had to be taken off, I had my camcovers powdercoated red.
We will install the engine together with gbox so cleaned that last weekend. Will be spraying that with alu-sinc paint. A quickshift has been sourced so that will be installed as soon as I get it so I can put all the gbox parts I have back on the box again.
The  rubbergaitor underneath the gearstick was shot too, so I ordered a new one, should be getting that next couple of days as well.

That's it for now. Hope to have an update again soon with the engine in place. Then it's to the rear end, rebuilding the rearsuspension etc.

Don't have any piccies atm but will add them as soon as I have a couple of decent ones.



Jeroen

Oil level sensor? There ain't one  Very early Sierra's had them, they sensed the level by using the oil as a capacitor so to speak. With two prongs at the end of the dipstick the electronics can measure a change in capacitance and hence too low an oil level.

Aren't you going to run the engine stock first for a while before upgrading everything?

popuptoaster

anodising is pretty complicated, i use to work in a plating factory, dipping stuff in acid is only one stage and is just for cleaning, the metal goes through about 6 different dips (some of em are water for rinsing)

be much easier to get it done for you, you cant do soft metal as the acidic dips eat it.

Remko GT

@Jeroen. I mean, how does the car "know" when to switch on the red oil check light?

Engine will be modified as far as possible without getting into trouble with the inspection. This means I will source an an original exhaust and maintain the original enginemanagement (for now). I think this is the correct way. If I would change it after the insepction the performance of the engine goes up again and that might get me into trouble with the insurance or other legal aspects in the future. When it's been inspected, tested on RWD test-track and rolling-roaded (they will do that) my insurance company will know what I've got because the power is indicated on the new registration I will get. If the inspector of the RDW asks why it's stronger than indicated on the importers declaration I will simply say it's because of the removal of aircon and the viscous fan. I am also working on a report on all the work done on the car I will hand to the inspector when my car is inspected. It's going to be a custom car anyway so it doesn't have to confirm to standard values AFAIK.

Jeroen

The red oil light is just a low pressure light switched by a simple pressure switch  

I'm not sure that power gets on the registration papers, on mine there's nothing. But things probably have changed since 1995

Since when do they RR it? Afaik only a sound check and a stability check on a test track, but no RR. Or things should have changed recently.

Remko GT

#13
I was under the impression the power will be tested. I hope you're right that they don't.  Would be better if they don't mention the power (in kW) on the registration for future upgrades. However, on the registration of my bike the power is indicated but this could be because of the limited power young motorcyclist are allowed to drive <25 kW. That's why I thought they might.
I guess I'll find out in a couple of months.

capri v8 driver

Quote from: Remko GT
I was under the impression the power will be tested.

remco,

RDW will not test the power off the engine. they will ask for legal paper whit the hp and torque output off that engine, whitch you can get at ford Netherlands. and don't think, they will help you with it. i tryed it for the capri v8 and the capri 24v, they will not help you. they rather sell new cars, than helping you bring a old one back on the road.

you also need the chassis number and number plate's number from the car, where the engine came out off. and they want to see the bill's for that engine. just to check if its not a stolen engine.  

best thing to do is and save your self alote off hassel and money: build a 2.0 or a 2.3 v6 whit the 2.0/2.3 orginal brake's and exhaust in the sierra, and go to the RDW whit the sierra.

the reason why i'am saying these is: sierra is never sold whit a 24v. so its never approved for the roads in the netherlands, as the 2.0/2.3 sierra is.  so that also means that if you have a 24v in the sierra, they will do all the test on the car, what they know off. and every test cost money. according to the rules now from the RDW, if you use a 24v in the sierra, you also have to use its brake's, exhaust and other parts. so its much beter to use a 2.0/2.3 v6 to get the sierra legal again, whitout to much hassel from the RDW. almost every 24v conversion on the road, in the netherlands, the owners went this route to get it legal again and have v6 on the car papers. for legal reasons, the RDW will never put cosworth or a other name on the car papers. only v6, or in my case, v8. whit only v6 on your car papers you can use every v6 after that.  

greetz paul.
capri v8 driver.

greetz Paul.

Capri V8 Driver.

Jeroen

#15
My car was reapproved somewhere in 1995, and I don't know the rules from that era.

What you will get is a regristration paper with only 6 cylinders on it and most other fields blank (e.g. zero) and as a type/handelsbenaming just "Ford Sierra". But what's most important you'll get a 'bijzonderheid'. A notice that the car has a basic type car approval for a Sierra which is a big number which is some code for the basic type approval they once did for a Sierra (BTG-FDP somewhat) and a notice that the date of first registration is some other date. (Voor datum eerste toelating zie "datum afgifte kentekenbewijs"). This basically says your car is not standard, but has been legalised. These codes are also issued for campers which are modified etc.

I once called the RDW for details about the reapproval of my car and they could not provide me ANYTHING.

If you want to have it reapproved with the 24V you will get a complete car approval, they same they do for a brand new design. And this will cost you more money you will ever spend on the car. E.g. thousands and thousands of euro's and they will test things that have been tested long ago.

I know of one car in NL that has a 24V but that has not been reapproved. (hint: it's an XR4i).

Remko GT

#16
After having your posts the cold seat was running down my back so called RDW. Happy to say you are both wrong.
When I asked about my project the answer was: It's possible.
You need a "Importeursverklaring" (i.e. importers declaration)
Brakes have to have a certain slowing downpower (vetraging). That's it. They will not look if it's brakes that belong to the car where the engine is from. I will use the brakes from my ABS Sierra
Sound and emission will be tested. Have to be conform the demands for when the chassis was put on registration. Because I want to pass this test I was planning on putting the original BOA exhaust anyway.
Because power increase is more than 40% car will be tested on track in Lelystad.

Only thing that "could" be a problem is that I have no license and registration from the Scorpio the engine came from and that I haven't got a bill on the engine. That can be solved with some contacts I think. Maybe I can get it a Scrapyard.

capri v8 driver

remco,

trust me, i bin there, they always say its possible. thats what they said to me also.

the capri v8 5.0L even passed the first time, i went for that test at the RDW station. me very happy, so i turn in the car papers for the chance. but my happynisch was very short lived. than i got a letter from them stateting, the capri was never build, approved and sold in the netherlands, so the conversion was not approved, and i had to go back to the RDW in lelystad and do all the test. the total bill for that was around 2500 euro's.  it took my 4 years and some cheathing to get the car papers back whit v8 on it. trust me if i say it was not funny anymore. i was at a point that i was planning to take the capri apart, sell the piece's and bring the rest to the yunkyard. a friend off mine gave me the tip to check the RDW rules off the engine conversions, and that gave me a answer to that problem. and by knowing the rules, and cheating a bid, i coud beat them whit there one rules.

there are only a few people at the RDW, whitch know the rules inside and outsite. and they don't tell you everythink because they have to earn money on these test. and for everything the car fails a test, thats money for the RDW. and for every test the car fails, you have to go back and pay and do the test again.  

whit the capri v8 rover and 24v i run in the same problems again, but this time i came prepared whit a copy off the rules. i even know the rules beter than the people, witch perform these test and the people in the office in zoetermeer, witch have to approve these conversions.

than as for the importers declaration, you must have very good friends at high place whit ford netherlands to get it. like i said before, ford does not like it when you bring that "old" car back on the road, they rather sell you a new one, because thats brings them money.  so normaly they don't help you whit it. they even got a saying about it: for every car taken off the roads, we can sell a new ford.

and whitout paperwork and bill's for that engine its a big gamble to go to the RDW, if they don't trused it, they will call in the police for a investigation (a policy off the RDW now). and you don't want that.

trow in a old 2.0/2.3 v6, that will be alote easyer to get v6 on the paper, or even beter, but you did not hear it from me, try to find a v6 sierra for the papers and switch the plates and chassis number. thats the cheapest and the less stressfull way.  

greetz paul.
capri v8 driver.



greetz Paul.

Capri V8 Driver.

Remko GT

#18
Changing chassis number is not an option. I've been owning the car for a cuple of years now. Besides, it's highly illegal and I don't want to go to jail for a car.

The thing is, I've talked to the RDW several times and got the same answer every time.  
Getting a properly running V6 Sierra in Holland will be a pain in the proverbial a**e.
The complete test would cost 700 Euro. The theory that they tell you half the truth to earn money on you sounds farfetched imo. It's not that I don't believe you but it's the RDW, not some dodgy cardealer.

I guess I'll take my chance. If it fails I'll try something else. I just want it done properly. Luckily I know a APK tester, and asked him to check the info. I hope they will tell him the whole truth if the RDW haven't told me.
Maybe I'm lucky.

Talked to Ford, they said they'd call me back. If I can't get it, I think I can get through a Ford garage where I buy a lot of parts.


Jeroen

It would be a lot easier if you just buy an 1990 XR4x4  and convert it to 24V. It doesn't need to run well does it? The most important thing is that the body is proper, rust free and it the color you like; all other things can easily be transplanted. And you want a hatch, no Sapph. A V6 Sapph is problem, unless you can import one successfully from Germany.

I don't think you'll go to jail for changing a car's identity  unless you do that on a regular basis with stolen cars. I wouldn't do it though

I think you should choose whether you have the car reapproved with a 24V or a 12V. They'll get suspicious when you turn up with a 12V a month later when the approval of the 24V failed for some reason.

From what speed is that braking test done? You can easily reach the required deacceleration rates no matter what brakes; but if they test from say 200km/h, solid 240mm's will overheat and fade before the car has even slowed down below 100km/h

capri v8 driver

hello remco,

the RDW is a part off the goverment, do i need to say more..... and they don't like these conversions.

think back to the "golf1" aeria, when they where putting vr6 engines in those golfs 1, or those vauxhul (sorry i have some problems whit that word) conversions whit 3.0L 6 cilinders in a kadet. beemers 316 whit a v8 from a 6 or 7 serie's. alote off accedents happent whit these conversions, so the goverment was not happy whit that. also, alote off stolen engines and parts ended up in these conversion. so they the made the rules on conversions alote strickter than a few years ago.  and thats 1 off the reasons why its so difficult to get the approvel. except car before 10/1973, because most engines in those car are not orginal anymore.

what ever you do, i wish you luck and hope that you get the approvel the first time. and that ford is willing to give you the importers declaration. i don't know how they can give it to you, because there is never a sierra 24v build or sold. so there is no importers declaration for a sierra 24v. but maybe you can get a delcaration for the engine alone. that will also, if signed by ford, excepted by the RDW.

as for my story, if you ever are in the near stein, limburg, give me a call, than i will show you the paperwork from the RDW on the capri's. than you know what i had to do and how long it took to get everything in the capri legal and on paper. it only fair to warn you, it will take some time reading true it.

greetz paul.
capri v8 driver.
greetz Paul.

Capri V8 Driver.

cossiemk2

Remko, when I built my V6, I started with a 2.0 from a Taunus.

My mate used this in his Opel Kadett to get it SVA'd.

I had the original serial plates that came with the car (the aluminium ones under the bonnet) so the engine was legitimate.

You basically have to fill out a whole list of what has been changed on the car(in this case the engine).
You need to fill in every thing, what brakes you are using, shocks and springs for the added weight. What type of exhaust you are using etc.

I had no problem getting my Escort SVA'd, they basically do an expanded MOT.

If the engine has more then 50% power increase, then you have to go the track at Lelystad for an extended emissions test and noise test.

I only had to do a noise test, and no emssions because the V6 is exactly the same age as my car!! Just 2 months difference.

The test the brake deceleration and the stability under braking.

BUT as the Sierra was fitted standard with a V6 it is no problem if you use original parts that belong to the engine such as exhausts and engine mounts.

But like Jeroen says the 24v ISN'T standard and you probably have to go through all the tests at Lelystad.

Better get a cheap 2.8 or 2.9 and fit that and fit the 24v later.

Ow and by the way, for the MOT it isn't required for the number of cylinders to match with the car papers.

However the insurance might get difficult if you have an accident and they see the car isnt original!!!!

Jeroen

I think it would be best to buy an old Scorpio 2.9; you have the engine AND all the papers to prove what engine it is and that you got it all legal.

Remko GT

I am using the brakes from my ABS Sierra. So 260mm discs front (not sure about this, might still decide using the Scorp 283mm front brakes but am going tostay with the 260's for now), not standard Ford crap but Black Diamond discs with Ferodo pads (about the best combi you can buy except for maybe a bigbrakes set from AP-racing, Brembo or something like that),on the rear I will also have discs, 253mm, but again, I will use Black Diamond discs, with Ferodo pads. It will stop the car, I have no worries in that area..
Engine mounts will be standard (I might even decide to use the uprated ones offered by ChuckW) and I will put on the exhaust that belongs to the BOA.
About the list you have to fill out, I am already making a conversion report/logbook with ALL modifications and with what parts I used so that will be a piece of cake.

@CossiemkII, you've hit the nail on the head! And even worse, putting in the BOA after having it retested with a 12v engine is illegal. Granted, the odds are small they ever find out but if they do (after a big crash with fatalities for example), you are in big trouble!
I know this for a fact because my mom's boyfriend is a police inspector. He told me I shouldn't worry and keep up the way I am building my car now. The complete undercarriage will be build up from scratch with all bearings, rubbers,bushings, seals and whatever changed. When my car goes to Lelystad everything under the car will so be clean it will look like new and function like it as well. I have asked a friend of my brother, who is a APK inspector, to do a prelimenary test before going to the RDW to rule out any small mistakes or things we might have forgot or done in a way the APK/RDW wouldn't approve of.
From your reply I understand you have a mate that used a Ford engine to get his Opel Kadett on 6 cilinders? Then I see no reason why it wouldn't be possible to get a Sierra with a Scorpio engine through the test. I just need the proper documents and need to find a way to get those documents. I was thinking asking a scrapyard with a Scorpio 24v wreck to help me with it.

@Paul; why didn't you consult the Ombudsman? I think he could have helped in your case. If you call to someone at the RDW and he said it can be done and then someone else on the same RDW says it can't be done because of a formality that the person on the phone said wasn't going to be a problem, you are in your right. That could even lead to them having to approve your car or at least give you a refund.
The RDW is a service facility and is not interested in profit. It would be very illegal for them to lie to you about formalities so they can earn money on you. I asked this as well to a very good friend of mine how is studying law and to my mom's boyfriend (the police inspector) as well.

I am planning on calling again in the near future and write down the name from the person I've been talking to. If you ask them the question: "What could be the problem with putting in an engine into a car that was never put in the car by the factory?" When they say it's not really a big problem and that it's possibe, you can keep them up on that! That is exactly the question I've asked. They said it's possibe and will cost me about 700 Euro. There is now way they can get around that. I've been given the advice to go to one of the RDW test centers nearby, soon, just to talk about my plans before I even offering my car for a test.

If my test fails because they say:"It's a fail because of this engine isn't supposed to be in the car." and that's the only reason, I will refer to the person I spoke to. However, like CossiemkII mentioned, the Sierra's were build with a V6 engine so that might help (I hope).
One more thing I've found out, if it's correct what you are saying that's impossible the way I want to do it, how do kitcars ever get on the street? That is what my car will be basically.

I hope you guys don't take this the wrong and take me for a smartass or plain dumbass but I still feel I can get my car through the test. I am not saying it's going to be easy and I never thought it would be, that's why we've been working at it for over 1,5 years now and the engine is not even in the car yet.
If it doesn't and it's a legitimate reason, so anything else than a construction mistake, I will accept my defeat and probably will buy an XR4 and upgrade that, but atm I infested so much time and money into the GT I am not scrapping that and buying a different car before even having tried it.

Hope this all makes sense.




Jeroen

#24
Quote@CossiemkII, you've hit the nail on the head! And even worse, putting in the BOA after having it retested with a 12v engine is illegal. Granted, the odds are small they ever find out but if they do (after a big crash with fatalities for example), you are in big trouble!

This is something that at times worries me because I have no idea what route they took with my car. That's why I called the RDW for extra info after I bought the car. It seems nothing was registered in those days, otherwise they could have provided me at least some information.  I said I thought it was a Scorpio engine and all he could come up with that it was well possible but that he didn't know and that I should visit an APK station?!

All of this is a bit of a grey area. I sometime wish I hadn't bought the car and sometimes think about selling it, just because of this vagueness. The fact that I'm slowly getting tired of the car too makes me seriously considering selling it, either in whole or in pieces and just buy a plain twinky (or... oh my god... maybe something completely else! ). At least I won't have to worry about legalese anymore  

capri v8 driver

hello remco,

consult the ombudsman, hehehe, give my a break. i talked whit one those people about it, but they coud not help me, because they had no layers or other people witch has the knowlege about this, i had to do research for them. and if i have to do it for them, i can take it to court my self, whit out them. so they were no help.

your friend is learning to be a layer, than he will be able to tell you, that you need every word on paper. if the peolpe off the RDW can put there worths on paper, what they say to you, you wood be fine, but what they say on the phone, thats your worht against there's. recording a phone call is not legall, if they don't approve that the call is being recorded. its even wurs, they work for the goverment (ambtenaar) so even if they say something thats not correct and you get in to problems, you can do almost nothing against them, if you have nothing on paper from them, to correct them and and let them keep there worth, promemis or get your money back.

you say the RDW is a service facility and is not interested in profit. well go to your local RDW station on a, lets say, monday morning, and start counting the vihicels being tested at one day, you will be suprised how many trucks, cars, bikes and mopeds they test at one day, and every test is $$$. count all those test centers in the netherlands together and all the test they do. maybe now you start to understand how much many money is imvolved, it goes in the miljoens every year. the goverment make big money on those test. so nonprofit, i don't think so. do you know how much the RDW earns for each apk/mot test perform by the normale garage? ask your friend at the garage, he can tell you how much they have to pay for each apk/mot. when i was still working in the garage and doing those apk/mot test, it was for every test 5.30 euro to the RDW.

for kitcars, there are other rules. you can see some off that on the site off the RDW.

i am not calling you smartass or plain dumbass, i thing you are a bid naive about this. nothing wrong whit that. if you want to go to the RDW and do the test , its fine whit me, it's your money and time.

but i learned my lessons if it comes to the RDW.

greetz paul.
capri v8 driver.





 
greetz Paul.

Capri V8 Driver.

cossiemk2

#26
I'm not worried about the insurance issues Remko.

The 24v I bought for parts doesnt have 24v in the papers, it just said :Scorpio 2.9 V6! No mention of Cosworth or anything.

If its illegal to fit another engine to the car, so when ya blow up an engine and get one from the scrapyard you are not allowed to drive it and can't get it insured basically.

My insurance company has a full detailed rapport about both my cars and ALL modifications done to it.

They accepted this as a fact, so if I do have an accident (no thanx) I am FULLY compensated.

It's the boyracers that stick a 2.0 Zetec in a 1.3 Escort and then drive the crap out of it and crash it and dont have ANY valuation on the car with the modifications done. They get 100 quid for the wreck and thats it and then start moaning to the insurance what they done to the car and how much it cost.

Just my 2p worth anyways. Rant over.....


cheeRS

Jurgen.

Jeroen

Another questions for our RDW gurus

I already have a 24V Sierra, but the idea of reshelling it has crossed my mind several times. The bodywork isn't that nice really; dents, scratches, paint touch ups in the wrong colour etc etc. and making a car look nice is really expensive.

Is it possible that I buy a minter, transfer all stuff (basically engine and 4x4 driveline) and just say I got all the stuff from a Sierra that's technically exactly the same? Is there a legal way to this without resorting to reVINing it?

capri v8 driver

greetz Paul.

Capri V8 Driver.

Remko GT

Last entry, February 2007    Time for an update methinks  
Here goes:
Front suspension has been fitted. Only need to finish refurbing the calipers and fit new brakelines because the old ones dont fit on the UK Sierra GLSi MC I fitted. I fitted this MC because I decided to upgrade the brakes after all. I'will be fitting Granada Cossie brakes all-round.
Was real "fun" getting the front end together. We ended pulling the TCA's into the Xmember using ratchetstraps. There was no other way with the new bushes.
8x17, can't get those for 4-stud (4 stud is 7,5x17 max) so will be kinda unique on a Sierra    even thought having OZ superTurismo on a Sierra isn't really. It's all about the details

When we've finished modding the rearaxle to be fitted I'm having it entirely powdercoated and will fit a PU diff mount.
As some of you may know, we also played with a BOB plenum:
.. x15 because I wanted a couple spare.



I'll update again when I have piccies of the stance of the car and when we start modding a rearaxle. In stead of using shims to correct the excessive negative camber we came with another solution. All will be revealed. I will also keep you all updated on the BOB plenum.


SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk