[REGMCI] Taunus 1600 GXL 1973 Hi from France

[REGMCI]

Hi all,

I'm Régis the very happy owner of a 1973 Ford Taunus 1600 GXL.
I want to know more about my cars (and others) and share knowledge with you.

I was a member of the Microjoule Team (world record of fuel consumption) and a technician in "Engine breathing" for Renault in the south of Paris.

I want to put the best Cologne V6 in my Taunus, a Cosworth 24v from a Scorpio tune for 100hp/l (in the futur).

Now the Fotos








I also have a Citroën AX with 106 GTI engine, gearbox and drive train (front and rear)


Lot of fun with it!

Voila!

[Lemon-Ade]

Hi Regis

Welcome in mate. Very nice Taunus mate  the 24v will look great in that engine bay keep us posted with your progress.

Cheers Ade

[Janspeedcapri]

I was a member of the Microjoul Team (woerld record of fuel consumption) and a technician in "Engine breathing" for Renault in the south of Paris.

Now thats interesting so your 24v should be 100 bhp/litre AND 100 mpg


Welcome

[REGMCI]

Hi all thank for welcome

I hope that V6 will be great in my car, but there is still only one problem called PATS!

For Janspeedcapri,

I don't use this car for brake comsumption record but if it's well tuned (I will do my best) it will be welcome to consume just what it's needed.

I'm for 12ltr/100km in gentle use and 25ltr or 30ltr/100km in Race mode
In miles/galoon (us) that's make 23mpg gentle mode and 11.3 in race mode

I planed to put a integral griddle for being able to hit 7500tr/min, 6 throttle bodies,A spécial 2x 3in 1 Exhaust manifold with a twin exhaust line in Ø 55mm (2.16") with tuned box , a set of new camshaft if it's needed (FBE spec?) and some surface treatment like Nikasil or ceramic.

I already have parts for making a Hybrid MT75 gearbox (a granny 4x4 and Diesel box)

A Scorpio transmission schaft and an Atlas axle in 3.44/1 ratio.

For the brakes I will put a brake system similary to the 280mm Caprisport one for the front, and Sierra 253mm for the rear.
I'm still looking for the good Master cylinder if you have informations about this!


Bigger Anti roll bar, 24mm at the front and a 18mm add to my OEM 16mm at the rear.

Gaz schock absorber all around GT6 series.

And for finish 4 Minilite Wheels in 15X7 inch with 205/50 R15 tyres.

What do you think of my Plan?

[Lemon-Ade]

Sounds like a plan to me mate  you seem to have it all covered.

Cheers ade

[REGMCI]

Thanks ade,

But I have to get rid of the F***ing PATS.

I see an American Website www.moates.net which make electronic bits using the J3 port (at the rear of EEC-IV and EEC-V) to tune and datalogging with the ECU (switch map in on the fly!!! ).

I  have all the loom for the engine and a part of one where the PATS box is, I wish it will be suficient for run the engine

Megasquirt is an option but It sad to dont use the potential (BIG BIG potential) of the EEC-V just for a question of anti theft.

I also have to find Silicon hoses full kit for the V6 in may car.

lot of work in sight
Any advice is Welcome

[Janspeedcapri]

I'm still looking for the good Master cylinder if you have informations about this!

This should do the job - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ford-Capri-Servo-Landrover-Master-Cylinder-/330586240632?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4cf879b678

the plan sounds good to me

edit - just seen he only posts to uk... I don't mind helping tho... I could send it on if you want

edit2 - I think Paul/capriv8driver is the best person to ask about factory ecus and PATS etc... you could pm him if you get stuck but I'm sure its all been discussed here in previous threads so have a search as well (I hassle the poor guy enough as it is  )

[capri v8 driver]

that master cilinder will only work if you have disk all around and use calipers with a bigger piston aera that the capri/taunus stuff. with some modifications, a booster and 22 mm master cilinder off a sierra will fit and works alote beter.

my capri did 8 ltr/100km with normal use and driving alote off highways. 12ltr to 15 ltr/100km was more for spirited driving and around 16ltr/100 km at the track. the biggest problems you will have to get the fuel consumtion down is the mt 75 gearbox (gear ratios) and even more important, the aerodynamic's of the taunus. 

the programming off the ecu is already setup for fuel efficenty, there is not much to gain. the moates stuff can be used, but i dont know if its support and if there are definition files for the 24v, thats something you have to check out first. if you have a tweecer rt, than yes, we are working on definition files for that and we have the 1GAB and BABY ecu's working now.

i dont know witch 24v you have, a boa or a bob. both type off engine run on the eec 4 ecu, except for the bob you need a rpm window switch to controle the v.i.s.

only the bob ecu (EEC5) uses pats.   

[REGMCI]

Thanks for your replies,

This should do the job - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ford-Capri-Servo-Landrover-Master-Cylinder-/330586240632?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4cf879b678

Thanks for the link, Iwill ask for posting in France.

For Capri V8 driver,

I mount in My Ax 16v a Ø 23.8mm MC with ZX 2.0 16v caplipers (Ø54mm piston)and I have OEM 106 GTI discs at the rear (Ø48mm piston) and the feeling and breaking power is just Perfect (DS2500 Pads)
So I'm lookinf for the same Feel in my Taunus.

I will put RS Cosworth 282mm Discs at front with Modeo calipers  and 252mm Sierra 2.0 is discs and calipers at the rear so I clearly need a bigger MC.

The Land Rover one is Ø 25mm?

For the Fuel consumption It's possible to get further in economy than the OEM, By running Lean because Catalytic converter (Oxydation type) needs to run  with stoechiometric mixture to chimicaly complete the reaction.
20% saving at maximum with a losse of Power and a lot of NOx poduction.

I will run with no cats and maybe a valve in the back box for free flow exhaust when VIS runing 

The Drag Coeficient of the Taunus is around 0.45 but it's 1.33m high (OEM) and 1.70m wide so it's like drive a big SUV.

Il will use a mt75 Diesel 5th Gear with a 0.78 ration it should be nice for the Highway fuel consumption and noise.

I own a BOB V6 with a EEC-V marked EXAM on it (so with PATS).

I already ask Moates about my ECU and they don't already know this box.
I seen BOB run with BOA loom but it disable the VIS and that's Dramatic for me (Acoustic is so much important for the engine breath and driving agrement)

What is Tweecer? and How to use it?

Thanks a lot for your interest 

[REGMCI]

edit - just seen he only posts to uk... I don't mind helping tho... I could send it on if you want

Janspeedcapri,

Sure I want it   

[Janspeedcapri]

Sorry if I linked to wrong thing for you - this is what I use with Brembo 4 pot front and cossy rear, because this is what was tested to work well by caprisport. It is 25mm, yes. - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LAND-ROVER-DEFENDER-MASTER-CYLINDER-FITS-FORD-CAPRI-/360250171914?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item53e095620a#ht_626wt_907

Do you happen to know the drag coefficient of a mk3 capri by any chance?

[REGMCI]

Perfect link i will study this.

For the Cx of the Mk 3 capri i don't know but I have a website who says this:

Cx 0.39 and SCx (surface X Cx the most important things in fact) 0.753
Take this information with caution.

Here is the link
http://www.histomobile.com/dvd_histomobile/fr/337/1978_Ford_Capri_III.htm

[REGMCI]

Janspeedcapri (it's quite long to wright isn't it?),

The MC linked sounds very good to me so what do u thinkof the matching Servo?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LAND-ROVER-DEFENDER-BRAKE-MASTER-CYLINDER-SERVO-NRC4772-/200209063056?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2e9d63dc90

[REGMCI]

This should do the job - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ford-Capri-Servo-Landrover-Master-Cylinder-/330586240632?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4cf879b678

The Guy can post it to France and the Ø in 1" that's perfect.

I think I will go for it!

Thanks Janspeedcapri

[Janspeedcapri]

O.k, thanks for the capri info/link ; please do check/calculate what size is right for your setup/requirement - I don't know enough to take responsibility if its wrong and something bad happens

[capri v8 driver]

For Capri V8 driver,

I mount in My Ax 16v a Ø 23.8mm MC with ZX 2.0 16v caplipers (Ø54mm piston)and I have OEM 106 GTI discs at the rear (Ø48mm piston) and the feeling and breaking power is just Perfect (DS2500 Pads)
So I'm lookinf for the same Feel in my Taunus.

I will put RS Cosworth 282mm Discs at front with Modeo calipers  and 252mm Sierra 2.0 is discs and calipers at the rear so I clearly need a bigger MC.

The Land Rover one is Ø 25mm?

Il will use a mt75 Diesel 5th Gear with a 0.78 ration it should be nice for the Highway fuel consumption and noise.

I own a BOB V6 with a EEC-V marked EXAM on it (so with PATS).

I already ask Moates about my ECU and they don't already know this box.
I seen BOB run with BOA loom but it disable the VIS and that's Dramatic for me (Acoustic is so much important for the engine breath and driving agrement)

What is Tweecer? and How to use it?

Thanks a lot for your interest 

the land rover mastercilinder is 25.4 mm. i use the same one on my capri v8 and its to big. even with the 4 pot calipers i have now.

with your setup, a 22 mm bore will work. its the same diameter ford uses with those brakes. to give you a mordern feel off the pedal, you need to chance the pivot point off the brake pedal, so you have the same ratio as a sierra/scorpio/mondeo pedal.

for the gearbox, its not only the 5e gear you have to look at, but also the other gears. you are not always driving on the highway.

lets look at the gear ratio's:

t9 2.8/2.9:
1st 3.36
2nd 1.81 (this is the ratio that lets the 2.8 go over 60 in 2nd )
3rd 1.26
4th 1
5th 0.83

MT75 (2.9 V6, 2.5 diesel AND 2.0 4x4)

1st 3.608
2nd 2.084
3rd 1.363
4th 1
5th 0.829 ( in your case 0.75)

now you can see the problem.

a t5 has more options for the gear ratio's.

you can uses the exam ecu, but it will not be easy.

for the moates stuff, its seems than that your ecu is not supported. tweecer has no file for it yet.

but if you have a tweecer rt, you could ask Mike from tweecer if he has a solution.

a bid more info over the tweecer: http://www.fordpower.org.uk/forum2/index.php/topic,8637.0.html

in your case a ms v3 would be a beter idea.

[REGMCI]

Hi Capri V8 driver,

Thanks for all the informations, I was wondering about the Landrover MC because Mondéo have Ø60mm piston caliper at the front and Ø36 at the rear (ok it's a FWD) and the MC used is a Ø 25.4mm thus,

my set up will be Ø60mm at front and Ø 43 at the rear (sierra rear caliper) that's why I though Land rover MC should be good.

I will follow your advice and put a Sierra MC Ø 22.2mm in my car, but what's the Sierra pedal ratio? (number needed )


For the gear box the T9 is too weak (Max torque around 155 N.m ?) and my aim is little more than 100 N.m/l so near 300 N.m twice what it can handle with.

The t5 is pretty rare in france and quite expensive, I'll stick with Mt75 but i'm wondering about Ratio used in Sierra Cosworth, could they work on an 2wd gearbox?

I haven't calculate my speed/ rpm yet with mt75 ratio and I have à 3.44 axle gear ratio with a wheel circumference of 1835 mm. I'll do that soon.

you can uses the exam ecu, but it will not be easy.

What's needed ? VSS, etc....? Just to run the engine and move the car first, the tuning will be for later.


I will study info about Tweecer thanks for the link

[REGMCI]

O.k, thanks for the capri info/link ; please do check/calculate what size is right for your setup/requirement - I don't know enough to take responsibility if its wrong and something bad happens

No problem,

if I am wrong with parts I've bought I'll never take you for responsible of that!

I take the decison to buy not you, so I'am the only responsible personne.

And I have to verify any information when there is a doubt about it.

[capri v8 driver]

For the gear box the T9 is too weak (Max torque around 155 N.m ?) and my aim is little more than 100 N.m/l so near 300 N.m twice what it can handle with.

The t5 is pretty rare in france and quite expensive, I'll stick with Mt75 but i'm wondering about Ratio used in Sierra Cosworth, could they work on an 2wd gearbox?

you can uses the exam ecu, but it will not be easy.

What's needed ? VSS, etc....? Just to run the engine and move the car first, the tuning will be for later.


I will study info about Tweecer thanks for the link

a good rebuild t9 from a 2.8/2.9 is much stronger than the normale t9's. i had one for 5 years behind a 12v and a 24v and used it for everything, street/ strip and track. never missed a beat.

for a t5 you need to look in the u.s, but you can find the in the uk also for normal prices.

to get the eec5 ecu going, you need everything, even the pats components, vss and like i said before, it will not be easy. 

[REGMCI]

Hi capri v8 driver,

Thanks for the advice.

What is a good rebuilt T9? spécial bearing? V6 T9 are rare in france too. France is THE country of Diesel engine and Renault car not very easy to find foreign car components.

What your rear tyres size?

I own the key with neiman, all the engine loom plus the one with the pats box I hope it will be suficient.
I read on the Scorpio.co.uk forum that by pass the pats on bob isn't rocket science. So there is a trick? any tips?
There's just 2 wire going to EEC-v from PATS box all other wires go to the fuse box and key reader.

[capri v8 driver]

we cant talk about bypassing the pats system on this forum. we could get into trouble with ford about that.

i used 205/50/15 on my capri with a 3.44 ratio for the diff.

[Leebay]

Welcome to the Forum Régis 

[REGMCI]

Hi Leebay,

Thanks for the welcome

[REGMCI]

we cant talk about bypassing the pats system on this forum. we could get into trouble with ford about that.

I understand sorry Pms welcome

i used 205/50/15 on my capri with a 3.44 ratio for the diff.

the rear of the Capri is pretty light and 205 wide tyre  seems to be good to not overload the gearbox, I understand now.

That's the same spec as mine great!

[Lemon-Ade]

Where abouts in France are you ? My dad lives in beauville in lot e garrone, area 44. Once my car is going I really want to drive down there, done it a few times now but only in a transit van some lovely roads and excellent views.

Cheers Ade

[REGMCI]

I am from the North of Paris.

And I have second houses in Normandy (near Mt St Michèle) and Nice near Monaco.

Yes the roads are greats but now Cops are everywhere! it's like drives in irak, always on guards, Germany is a paradise if you like trees.

[Lemon-Ade]

Some nice roads down there mate and you need to see the amount of speed cameras over here now! I meant to say area 47 my uncle is just over the boarder in 44. Your nearer to London than to my dad lol

[REGMCI]

Oh yes that's far from england,

Are you sure 47 bord 44 departement?

http://www.cartesfrance.fr/cartes/departement/carte-departement-Lot-et-Garonne.jpg

I am in 92 as you can see on my cars

[Lemon-Ade]

Im sorry, Your right mate, Bourg da visa in tarn et Garrone  is where my uncle lives 33 I think, his car had a 44 plate so it must be from up north? maybe he has to change it? Or maybe he has by now.I haven't been over for almost a year now. My dad took his uk focus over and has registered it there and is 47 had to change all the lights front and rear to, can't remember why the rear ones, I will ask.

Cheers Ade

[Dave]

Welcome.

Looks like you have already done your home work & have a good shopping list already.

Yes there is bypasses for PATS but not what you think it's just tapping a spare key next to the sensor & the like.

PATs is one of the hardest of all the systems out there, a real bugger but we are working on it!

A beefed up T9 is only as strong as a 2.9 spec MT-75.

2.9 MT-75 gearsets are the same as the Cosworth one except Cossie uses shorter input shaft.